Depends how you look at it

100 % correct
People who wanted to make it had to work at it and in fact had to work with others to make it.
Now , just have a baby or 3 and collect your welfare check and the need to human interaction is gone.
The exception to the rule NOW is those who work and want to assimilate.
Before it was the exception to the rule on who laid around having children from different men.
Its not about gop vs dem or whites vs. black
thats what some want it to be so they can keep their income stream alive.
Its about right vs wrong
and that is color-blind

My two cents, for whatever it is worth ...
I came permanently in the US in 1958 and without speaking English I could not have obtained a working visa... And rightly so of course.
I lived in Texas back then, and I was associated with many Mexicans living in my area, and at work, most of them spoke good English, and if they did not, they made a serious attempt at it. We always could communicate without difficulties and they were a good bunch of people. Although I feel certain several of them were "illegal", no one seemed to care...they were hard workers and good family people...
I became a US Citizen in 1963, and not only was I required to speak and write English, but I also had to demonstrate my knowledge of American history, and answer general questions about the Constitution, the American way of life, etc. during the pre-Citizenship interview.
Later on in life, I must admit that I became somewhat "perturbed" when I spent some time in Florida and got exposed to so many Hispanics that never made the least effort to speak English, and now, I must also admit that I resent having to push buttons to hear my options in English in just about every walk of life...
As for what's his name singing the National Anthem in Spanish, I won't go there, but that too is getting my hormones over acting...
I have also lived here and there in the US, I have met many people from different Countries, and/or different backgrounds, especially in New York - Boston and Washington DC where I flew and sojourned a lot, and what a great opportunity it was to broaden my horizon and discover that the center of the universe is not at any specific location on the planet, even if the force of gravity continues to attract me towards Rouen...
As for "mingling" with people of different races, religions, or ethnic background my wife could tell you a few stories about that, our doors have always been wide open to all, (even Republicans)... Sorry, I could not pass that one up...
Of course it was not a daily occurrence, but it happened several times when I was still working and associated with a lot of people, we had many visitors and we learned a lot.
Of course, living in the Georgia boonies, I must admit that some of my neighbors may not have agreed with some of my visiting friends' color, but I would have been perfectly capable of giving them some directions as to where to go...
I have read carefully what you all had to say, and not withstanding my exchange of pleasantries with M'sieur BPAL, you all have made some darn good points.
As for the difference in cultures, I maintain that it depends on how one views it, what one likes, and that my friends that's the reason they make Chocolate and Vanilla ice-cream....
Saludos Amigos und an shone Saturday und Sonntag to you aussi... NA
Mike

Marie and Ellen: I agree with both of you. It's terrible when people don't make the effort to assimilate. But, that's the law of nature. As for the Hispanic issue, there's a reason that American students are encouraged to learn Spanish. In some parts of the US, English speakers are at a terrible disadvantage.

As for likes attracting likes. isn't that always the way? People must make an effort to meet people with different values and customs.

Marie -- hope you're having a good weekend. Hope everyone is having a great weekend.

Marie,

Bon weekend a vous, aussi!

I think what you say has merit. Generally, I believe people tend to gravitate to others of their own culture and nationality. It's easier to talk to people who speak the same native language as you, share the same cultural background as you. It takes more effort to associate with people who are different from you. I'm not advocating that, necessarily, but I do believe that it's human nature.

Bonsoir,

Just a few words because I'm snowed under with work presently... I think you kind of idealize the States... When one strolls along the streets in NY City, it's true that one passes people from lots of various countries... But I don't think people from different ethnic origins really mix together... I mean people belonging to different "races", religions, etc. One of our daughter's best American friends who is going to be her "témoin"/witness at her wedding next month is from Korea. She arrived in the States when she was 13... Yet, according to our daughter, when she lived at Sunae's in August 2001, our daughter "only" met people from Korea for a holiday at the beach or when living in New York at her friend's, etc. The same thing had happened years ago when our daughter spent a month in the family of her Iranian friend... I'll ask my American Jewish friend (he doesn't practise his faith) who is a doctor in Florida after living in Idaho and whose mother lives in NY City (he is spending a holiday at his mother's presently) what he thinks about your statement... I may be wrong but I think that the "melting pot" exists in the world of work: people live and work in the same offices, etc. but once their work is over, they go back home and don't mix with people having very different ethnic origins...

On the other hand, the problem which has arisen in the States is the Hispanic immigrants' kind of refusal to integrate into the American society... They have their own newspapers, don't feel like speaking English... In the past century, immigrants made the effort to learn English and "integrate" into the American society... But this is not true among the Hispanic community which grows more and more every day...

Now, because I work tomorrow morning and am leaving for Nantes at the weekend, I won't be able to read your answer until Monday evening... Bon weekend !

So, "tout est bien qui finit bien"

You need to explain that one too Monsieur BPAL...
Are your hormones over acting again?
Provoke, moi?
I am still looking to see if you have figured out on how to post the photos of your trip report
As for you French Girl your English is great, I wish my French was still that good...
"Heureux sont ceux qui ont compris qu'il ne faut pas chercher à comprendre"
That's a real "Zingo" NA...
Mike

Frenchgirl....we're both in the same boat (if you have that expression en français) and I'm at a bit of a loss too. But I do suspect that the good cap'n is trying to put words in my mouth and then return with a big "zingo". But as Akim Tameroff said in that wonderful Hemingway movie For Whom the Bell Tolls
"I don't provoke"

waow, it sounds like private jokes now...
I regret my english is not good enough to undersand everything perfectly.

Of course I am, how could I not laugh "WITH" our resident "Old Grouch Senior BPer"?
You get your hormones in such an uproar when you see my posts Al that you do not even take time to read what I have to say, nor answered my questions...
Such as this...
"You will have to explain that one to us Al, what fantasy?
I have not seen anyone denigrating America on the forum only fair comparisons of the ways of life, here and “over there”.I
will ask you again... WHAT FANTASY are you talking about?
Mike

Very well said,frenchgirl. It's amazing that there are beautiful spots even outside New York. Like the backwoods of Georgia par example. ...... I really hope you're laughing , Cap'n.

I just say that, I don't know how to explain it, but I see that my french (or european) friends who live in the USA have very well adapted, they are like american people now...
And I say the american culture is strong, because I've never seen such a strong attraction for a country anywhere else .
Maybe because of the culture of immigration of America. This country knows how to attract foreigners.

Me too Al...
Trying to debate anything with you, is a lost cause...
And, as far as some American culture is concern, and judging by what America is exporting Worldwide, I certainly would not brag about it ...
Mike

Come on Mike, now you're being silly. American culture (BE IT GOOD BAD OR INDIFFERENT) is the most copied culture in the world. And in 250 years (as you say) it has put most all countries with thousands of years history to shame. Literature,music, science. You wouldn't want to count Nobel prizes?????

If this is going to be the nature of this catagory....count me out!!

You will have to explain that one to us Al, what fantasy?
I have not seen anyone denigrating America on the forum only fair comparisons of the ways of life, here and “over there”.
It all depends what you are looking for and what your interests in life are.
“Different people, different strokes"
It is hard to compare the American culture, a Country with just 230 years of history with that of France (or anywhere in Europe) that spans several thousands of years.

American culture strong? In what respect French Girl? Explain that one too, please...
As for becoming an American when you are "there"??...
I am sure you meant "adapting to the American way of life... Non?
Yes, one adapts... anywhere for that matter...
Mike

Yes, french girl, I loved to read what you have just posted and I may even say that when I was composing my post I was hoping to prompt such a sentiment. I have been making France and its culture a part of my life for a very long time and it is disappointing here on BP to see fellow Americans denigrating our culture for some fantasy they haven't even started to appreciate.

I think New-York is a fascinating city for the French!
(more than other american cities)
The image of a town where all is possible, where there is a mix of cultures, a cultural background, is still strong. I think I'd like to live there a few years.
Moreover, we use to say, in France, that it's easy to become very quickly an american person after a few months in the United States.
I think it's true...the american culture is so strong...you must become an american when you are there!
In the other hand, I love living in Paris...I feel very french, despite of all the problems and the true clichés about France, I want to stay Parisian and French, I love it!

Al,

I'm not surprised at that at all. In many instances, I think the attraction is that the new country (or city) is different whether for Americans abroad or foreigners toward the US.

This week end I was with a group of parents of my grandson Gabriel's classmates at the Elysée Français here in NY. They were divided between being ex-pats or working for French firms or government here. They felt that most people infatuated with the beauty of Paris as a city were foreigners (mainly American). By the same token I got the feeling that those who were working for the government or French firms here would love to stay in NY, mainly for the way of life which they have well adapted to.

Anybody surprised?